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Scratch Composition Records


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#1 sm.ghanem

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 11:55 AM

I'm getting interested in multi-tracking some scratch compositions; what are some good (real vinyl) records to get? I'm looking for something with a decent amount of guitars, sax, bass, drums etc. I've got scratch records but there's only odds and sods, but across my collection, nothing comprehensive as far as instrument sounds go. I'm looking for records still in print - I don't like buying 2nd hand scratch records as they're likely to be worn out.

PS, does anyone know the brass sound that D is using here?



#2 TOM YUM

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 01:00 PM



dont bite it haha

#3 nodgrass

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 01:01 PM

utility phonograph records would be the obvious suggestion. but i also really like the c2c series you can get them off the onandon records site if you speak french i think grem might have put one together indipendently too.

#4 Jam Burglar

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 05:26 PM

Basically, it's like this. The best way to make your own scratch composition is with your own digs. It's all about 2nd hand records. That's where most of the sounds from the break records are coming from. By using break records, you're using somebody else's digs.

The whole culture of beat making and composition is reliant on your own digging. Any time you're using break records you're automatically putting yourself in with every other scratch DJ who was too lazy to find their own sounds, and seperating yourself from what Dave, Ric, Excess, Toadstyle, etc. are/were doing. That's not to say NEVER use break records to make compositions, it's just that if you become too reliant on them you're not really holding it down.

When Ric originally put out the UPR records he said they were intended for rounding out compositions, in situations where you'd created something out of your own digs but you just couldn't find that certain thing you were looking for. He was against usting them to build compositions from the ground up.

Anyway, handy to have, yeah, but if you really want to get into scratch composition go the 2nd hand record spots and start looking for sounds.

#5 ELGEE

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 05:39 PM

rucks drums are sick on that vid, i remember this vid from years back.

#6 Dopez

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 10:15 PM

Soundcraftsman - CrowdControl Records

It's got traditional drums/ahhs/freshes, but also has six scales on the B Side in different keys.

Also, DJ Greem's Soundbox One has the same concept, but it's hard to find.

#7 sm.ghanem

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 12:22 AM

View PostJam Burglar, on 23 February 2012 - 05:26 PM, said:

The whole culture of beat making and composition is reliant on your own digging. Any time you're using break records you're automatically putting yourself in with every other scratch DJ who was too lazy to find their own sounds, and seperating yourself from what Dave, Ric, Excess, Toadstyle, etc. are/were doing. That's not to say NEVER use break records to make compositions, it's just that if you become too reliant on them you're not really holding it down.

I'm aware of the history, culture, and tradition of digging, but it never appealed to me. Tradition be damned, as much as I love hip hop. There's two ways you can dig - spend hours in charity shops, wading through Abba and Wham records to find one okay-ish record for an okay-ish price; or go to somewhere more specialized, run by people who sort of know their shit, and so pay through the nose for less than 20 seconds of usable material. In option 1, I haven't got the time or patience - call it laziness or lack of creativity if you want, but I work 60 hours a week in 24/7 shift patterns, working with challenging people in a job with a high burnout rate - so spending my precious free time in bric-a-brac stores is low on my to do list. Option 2, I simply haven't got that kind of disposible income, and if I did, I'd be spending it on something else. I see record stores in London charging £18 for one of Barry White's many terrible albums. And not even in good condition. Fuck that shit, whenever I go into record stores in LDN I walk out 5 minutes later in disgust at the prices. That's the general problem with vinyl - it's been around so long, all the ruthless collectors and dealers snap up the ones worth having, leaving mountains of shite in 2nd hand shops, whilst charging an arm and a leg for the decent stuff. Yeah, reissues are an option - my listening vinyl collection of soul, funk, blues etc are almost all reissues - but if they're reissued on vinyl I'd rather buy them for cheaper on CD nowadays, which kind of defeats the whole point of digging, because if they've been reissued they've likely been sampled to death.

All of that's a side note for my current purposes; I'm not trying to be the next D-Styles or Ricci Rucker - I'm just having fun with a hobby. Messing around, seeing what I like, what compositions can offer. I know your point isn't that I have to start digging from day one, and you point out that sample records are handy, but I had to get the digging issue off my chest.

And thanks to others for the recommendations, I'll check out for them!

#8 Jam Burglar

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 12:58 PM

View Postsm.ghanem, on 24 February 2012 - 12:22 AM, said:


I'm aware of the history, culture, and tradition of digging, but it never appealed to me. Tradition be damned, as much as I love hip hop. There's two ways you can dig - spend hours in charity shops, wading through Abba and Wham records to find one okay-ish record for an okay-ish price; or go to somewhere more specialized, run by people who sort of know their shit, and so pay through the nose for less than 20 seconds of usable material. In option 1, I haven't got the time or patience - call it laziness or lack of creativity if you want, but I work 60 hours a week in 24/7 shift patterns, working with challenging people in a job with a high burnout rate - so spending my precious free time in bric-a-brac stores is low on my to do list. Option 2, I simply haven't got that kind of disposible income, and if I did, I'd be spending it on something else. I see record stores in London charging £18 for one of Barry White's many terrible albums. And not even in good condition. Fuck that shit, whenever I go into record stores in LDN I walk out 5 minutes later in disgust at the prices. That's the general problem with vinyl - it's been around so long, all the ruthless collectors and dealers snap up the ones worth having, leaving mountains of shite in 2nd hand shops, whilst charging an arm and a leg for the decent stuff. Yeah, reissues are an option - my listening vinyl collection of soul, funk, blues etc are almost all reissues - but if they're reissued on vinyl I'd rather buy them for cheaper on CD nowadays, which kind of defeats the whole point of digging, because if they've been reissued they've likely been sampled to death.

All of that's a side note for my current purposes; I'm not trying to be the next D-Styles or Ricci Rucker - I'm just having fun with a hobby. Messing around, seeing what I like, what compositions can offer. I know your point isn't that I have to start digging from day one, and you point out that sample records are handy, but I had to get the digging issue off my chest.

And thanks to others for the recommendations, I'll check out for them!

Bluhd, that's aboot the most hoart breaking and disappointing answer I've ever seen in the world of scratch. That's like saying "yeah, I want to scratch but all I care about learning is the chirp scratch."

Just hear me out here. First, I'm not saying don't buy the break/instrument records, they're good practice tools, they can come in handy. I have many of thems shits. I just don't rely on them for the backbone of composition. Second, you've got digging for scratch composition all wrong. The most beautifulest thing about scratch composition is you don't need the loop, you don't need the 5 or 10 second break like the hip hop producers are looking for. All you need is a couple seconds or less of an isolated instrument because you can flip that into crazy shit. All those expensive records are played. Go for the thing nobody else notices or cares about. There's tons of stuff out there for crazy cheap.

The whole point of making scratch music is expression and just using these pre-selected sounds on break records will severely limit your creativity. I would even say super-severly or perhaps go as far as super-duper severely. I'm bascially saying its severe if you catch my drift..

You want to learn scratch composition? Go to anyone's record collection, close your eyes, grab 10 records off the shelf, and see what you can make out of them. You'll be suprized what you can come up with and it's way more fullfillng than putting on Barely Legal Breaks and making something that sounds like D-Styles with muscular dsytrophy.

#9 sinjintek

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 06:31 PM

View Postsm.ghanem, on 24 February 2012 - 12:22 AM, said:

Yeah, reissues are an option - my listening vinyl collection of soul, funk, blues etc are almost all reissues - but if they're reissued on vinyl I'd rather buy them for cheaper on CD nowadays, which kind of defeats the whole point of digging, because if they've been reissued they've likely been sampled to death.
sorry man, i just don't quite get what you're saying here. you were asking for "real vinyl" but you don't want reissues because you'd prefer them cheaper on CD? and you're afraid reissues would mean they've been sampled to death, yet you're willing to buy breaks/instruments records? seems contradictory, but i digress... i'm probably missing something.


Quote

I'm looking for records still in print
there's you first big problem. there's not a lot of stuff out there that's "still in print" ...it's either new or a reissue. however, this doesn't mean you can't just go listen to music and crossreference the tracks you're interested in on discogs. if you're looking for good pricing, online is your best bet... those LDN shops probably have a lot of overhead, real digging happens in the dark, dank recesses... the best gems don't have pricetags and they don't usually sit on display (seldom even on a shelf), they're stuck in crates and footlockers, forgotten and waiting.

#10 k-bop

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 06:53 PM

charity shops mate.

#11 Jam Burglar

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 08:41 PM

Does Camden Market still have vinyl vendors on the street on the weekends? I found some good shit there back in the day.

I live in the U.S. but I find records everywhere I go. I bought records at the top of the hill in the tourest area of Gruyere Switzerland. When you see this
Posted Image
You don't expect to see records. You also don't expect to find an HR Giger museum with pictures of alien baby dicks raping other aliens but I digress . . .

Every once in a while we all break down and pay $8 or $10 for a record but more often than not its $1, $2, $3. Those break records are good to get oriented but I guarantee you your best music will be made out of records you happened to find in some crazy spot where you never expected to find them. I hear where you're coming from, I'm just saying don't write off digging. Just start small and cheap and slowly build.

#12 Unseen

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 11:05 AM

i dont know where your shopping for vinyl, but "gems" are mad cheap. one time i rolled in looking to find 1 or 2 records, and dude was like, take all of them (3 crates) for 20 bucks. 75% was garbo, but the usable material had some of the best stuff ive ever found. money is money and it comes and goes, so after being responsible and paying the bills, why not use it on something you love? as far as not wanting to spend your time in vinyl spots because its 2nd on your priority list... i agree with jamburglar. outside of adulthood, music is my first priority. maybe shift some stuff around and change your perspective?


Quote

There's two ways you can dig - spend hours in charity shops, wading through Abba and Wham records to find one okay-ish record for an okay-ish price; or go to somewhere more specialized, run by people who sort of know their shit, and so pay through the nose for less than 20 seconds of usable material.

20 seconds is a LOT of material. thats a full track with verse/chorus/and maybe a bridge as far as im concerned. if you found just 1of these on a given day, thats a good day fam.


Quote

so spending my precious free time in bric-a-brac stores is low on my to do list. Option 2, I simply haven't got that kind of disposible income, and if I did, I'd be spending it on something else.

i dont even know what to say about this. maybe change hobbies? haha... realk talk my dude, if this isnt what you love, than you aint going to put 100 on it. i get that we all have different life circumstances but if you perhaps switched it up a little, you can attain these little nuances that would produce a more conducive attitude towards what youre looking to do. i too work long days and weeks as you do, and when im faced with that window of opportunity, i find myself torn between jumping on the decks, or catching up on sleep, or food, or what pathetic social life i have. haha. however, when i choose the latter, i feel less satisfied and often turn around saying, "this is wack, i should be creating music." so now i dont put myself in that position anymore. we do what we love. if digging, spending time and money on this hobby aint what you love. do what you love. ya dig?

im the king of derailing threads. sorry. related to the initial thread: (i hope i can suggest this) peep the beat battle section at stones throw forum. heads list a new sample every week for the beat battle. copp 1's you like and use your DVS.



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